Filmhustler catches up with his filmmaker friend Phil Leirness who's embarking on his second documentary feature The Truth is Out There with the X-files famed Dean Haglund. Like many talented filmmakers, Phil is a man for all seasons. He has directed both narrative and documentary features on top of being a international sales agent.
FH: It's great to hear you are finishing up a new feature. I know you have been talking about working on a project with Dean Haglund. What's the genesis of The Truth is Out There?
Neither Dean nor I can remember how we met, but we have worked together before. I directed him in Spectres, we co-wrote two screenplays together (both of which have come perilously close to getting financed on multiple occasions) and, of course, we have co-hosted Chillpak Hollywood Hour, a free weekly podcast for almost four years now (http://www.chillpakhollywood.com). In having had the opportunity to get to know Dean over the course of these many years, it became quite intriguing to me that this improv comic from the frozen plains of Canada, who studied dance and art history in college, would become so closely identified with such an iconic role (“Langly”, one of the computer-hacking trio known as “The Lone Gunmen”) on the seminal television series The X-Files (and their own spin-off series), and would subsequently be so closely identified with the world of conspiracy. So, my interest in Dean as a person was part of the inspiration for The Truth Is Out There.
Also, I find I enjoy making movies about things that make me angry. Eighteen months ago, when we started principal photography, the public debate over health care was waging and it truly seemed like NO political debate could take place without what should have been a meaningful conversation devolving into conspiracy theories. For example, Person 1 might say, “Gee, I’d really like a strong public option” and Person 2 would respond, “That’s interesting. Obama has no birth certificate!”
Perhaps, I’m exaggerating, though if I am, it’s not by much. So, the lack of conversation between people who disagree, the dogmatic polarization that dominated seemingly every important discussion, and the non-stop litany of conspiracy theories surrounding EVERY topic, these were things that made me angry. And when I get angry, I stop myself because it’s very easy to find what’s wrong with something. What’s more interesting is to ask, “What’s right about this? How does this serve?” And so, I thought following Dean Haglund, insider into the world of conspiracy theories and truth-seekers, into that world would make for an entertaining, illuminating and possibly inspiring journey.
From a business standpoint, the genesis of the project was my wanting to make a film that could prove the distribution paradigm I had designed over the prior few years. What we have ended up with is a true epic of comedy, consciousness and conspiracy (the trailer can be viewed at http://truth-is-out-there.com) that we will be self-distributing through the Rational Exuberance banner (the company that Dean founded).
FH: You've made both compelling narrative features and documentaries. Do you lean toward one form or the other? How do you see the technique and storytelling differs between the two forms?
It’s funny. For my show, I’ve been attempting to put together a list of my Top Ten Films of 2010 and all I can say is, “Thank goodness for documentaries!” Seriously, where would those of us who have to put together such lists be without documentaries this year?! I think one of the reasons documentaries have been so well-received of late is that increasingly their makers are finding new techniques for creating intimacy between the audience and the films’ subjects. Whereas narrative filmmaking, certainly commercial narrative filmmaking, seems increasingly to be set up in such a way as to actually PREVENT an audience from experiencing intimacy with the film’s characters and even with each other!
Intimacy is our birthright and to experience intimacy, we must be willing to open ourselves to the good, the bad and the so-called “ugly” that makes up a human being. A storyteller’s responsibility is to immerse the audience in the world experienced by a character. Whether that character is fictional or the subject of a documentary, if the story is artfully told, the audience will be inclined to move beyond their own personal judgments and find genuine compassion for the people that inhabit the world into which they’ve entered. And if the storytelling is particularly masterful, then the audience might just come away from the film, be it documentary or narrative, with a more compassionate, loving and accepting relationship with the full range of aspects that make up their own nature.
People who watch The Truth Is Out There may want to judge the people Dean meets and interviews on the basis of whether they agree or disagree with them. I think that judgment will prove difficult, however, for these people with whom Dean speaks are real human beings who come across as more than the sum of the information they have to offer, more than the sum of the conclusions they have drawn, more than the sum of the beliefs they espouse. Truly, I think audiences will love the subjects Dean interviews.
I know I do. And that as much as anything is why we list all of Dean’s interview subjects, collectively, as “The Friends of TRUTH”.
Naturally, there’s a fundamental difference in approach between the traditional documentary and the traditional narrative film. In a documentary, you are inspired by a question or hypothesis and you proceed to seek answers, hoping to be able to embrace the structure that emerges through your explorations. In a narrative, you iron out the structure in advance, and if you don’t, odds are that dog will NEVER hunt. As a director, though, you always want to be open to embracing that which truly wants to come forward (rather than simply sticking to some pre-conceived vision). And certainly with my last film (Karl Rove, I Love You) I employed documentary techniques and applied them to a fictional narrative. That’s why we describe it as a “fictional documentary” rather than a “mockumentary.” On this film, I’ve applied some traditional narrative techniques. So, I always seem to be interested in a blending between the two.
As to whether I “lean” towards one or the other, I feel myself enjoying the possibility of going back and forth between them, of working in both, and I’m currently trying to attract financing for a wide range of documentaries AND narratives, so if you think I’m going to proclaim a preference, you’re crazy!
FH: Since you were also in distribution and sales and you have a strong sense of the market, how does this knowledge influence you on this project? What's your plan for this movie?
I got so angry (again, there I go with my anger!) witnessing the way the distribution business operates. There was almost no way for a film’s investors to ever see a return and no way for the artists to ever make any real money. Moreover, the distribution companies themselves, at every level of the food chain, were merely in business to stay in business. It was just bad idea after bad idea. So, once I realized that technology and our modern culture allow for filmmakers to reach their target audiences directly, without the marketing costs that cripple most releases’ bottom lines, I knew it was time to prove that films can make money for their investors, can put money in the pocket of filmmakers and can help those filmmakers reach an audience directly, interact with that audience and quite possibly grow their audience in the process.
As for the specific plans on this film, why don’t we re-visit this topic a year from now, we’ll see what’s working and I’ll tell you why it’s working and we’ll see what didn’t work and I’ll tell you why it didn’t work. Fair enough? For now, I will simply reiterate that spending money on marketing is ludicrous. It is quite possible, depending on the type of film to MAKE money marketing the film. Imagine that. The traditional “expenses” actually become additional sources of revenue. It’s possible and we’re going to try and prove it.
FH: Tell us about your fascination with actor and performance as both your documentaries Karl Rove I love You and this one are about actors.
In a society that celebrates fame and celebrity, I fear we’ve lost sight of the fact that acting truly is a sacred art.
In discussing The Truth Is Out There and the various topics explored therein, people will often ask me what I “believe” and I’m rather quick to respond that belief is boring. What I’m interested in is what people know. Knowledge is truth that can be embodied and actors teach us how to embody the nourishing truths of being human.
Put another way, in the wake of the economic downturn (or as Dean calls it, “implosion”), he was doubting the importance of acting, of theatre. He said that in times such as these, acting and the arts are luxury. I feel that in times such as these, the arts become necessities again. One reason is that in our lives we will all be called upon to play many roles, and we will also be called upon to relinquish those roles. Our relevancy will constantly change as we move from relationship to relationship, from job to job, from community to community and as age settles upon us. This is all terrifying! And as human beings our instinct is to cling to our roles, to identify with our roles, to not want to lose our relevancy.
Actors show us it’s all okay. They demonstrate how to play each role as artfully and as joyously as we can and then to have the grace to let that role go.
And sometimes, actors are called upon to demonstrate the true danger of identifying too closely with any particular role we might be play. History is replete with examples provided to us by celebrated performers who have “gone down the rabbit hole” … And that leads us back to the inspiration for this film. What WAS it like for actor-improv comic-inventor Dean Haglund to be so closely identified with such a specific role for so long? Indeed, to still be identified with it to this day.
FH: This is a bit from the left field. Did you find film school helpful or necessary? How was your experience at UCLA? Would you recommend film school?
To steal and butcher one of my favorite lines of Tom Lehrer, film school is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends on what you put into it! Of course it was helpful. A writer writes. A painter paints. A filmmaker makes films. And creativity begets more creativity. I learned a great deal because I put a great deal into it.
Is film school necessary to become a filmmaker? No, of course not I don’t know how I would have managed to gain so much experience in so short a time without film school. And I love being around creative people and sharing in their efforts and being inspired by them, but most of the people in my class didn’t end up becoming filmmakers. So, one must be very careful not to surround oneself with people who simply enjoy talking about making a film. One should surround oneself with those who are actually DOING it.
Quite honestly, on each of these last two projects, it’s been like going back to film school… Both in terms of being forced to learn new skill sets and new techniques and also in terms of stripping away much of what I had learned previously during my career and reminding myself that there are no rules. These films have truly restored my sense of play.
FH: Since you're such a multi-hyphenate... I mean very much a film hustler... what would be your advice for young filmmakers out there?
My first advice to EVERYONE out there is to stop using the phrase “young filmmakers” and to replace it with “ASPIRING filmmakers”! I’ve lived long enough now and traveled around the world enough to know that dreams of creatively expressing oneself ought to have no expiration date. To all aspiring filmmakers I say this, “Don’t do it.”
Seriously. Unless you have nothing else that turns you on as much, don’t do it. It’s really hard.
Then, when they decide to ignore me and pursue their filmmaking dreams anyway, I would tell them, to read. Not scripts. Books. Fiction and non-fiction. Study painting. You don’t have to paint, but study the way stories are told, emotions conveyed in still frames through color and light. Study architecture. Study dance and theatre. ESPECIALLY study dance and theatre. Study how stories are embodied by and expressed through the human body. Oh, yes, and love people. Unconditionally. I see so few films where the filmmakers seem to love their characters, to say nothing of people in general.
The best storytellers are true witnesses, of themselves and of others.
Finally, the most important bit of advice I would have for filmmakers, aspiring or otherwise is this: Remember that the most significant story you tell will never be the film on which you are working, but rather the story you are telling with your LIFE. Make it an interesting one. Don’t worry about making a film because it will sell. Make a film because it’s a film that needs to be made. Make that film because it IS you to make it. In this life, we don’t get what we want. We get what we are. So, take those opportunities that can reveal yourself to you and tell a story with your life that inspires others, that raises the bar for others. Be someone with the courage to embrace what comes forward in life with gratitude for all of it. You do that, and your life will be an artfully told story and the filmmaking … Will take care of itself.
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